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-   -   93 D21 4x4 Head Gasket Advice (http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45267)

Hoseman1958 03-20-2021 09:40 AM

93 D21 4x4 Head Gasket Advice
 
I noticed in late Summer last year that radiator was losing water. Couldn't figure out why I needed to add water each time I drove it (about once a week.)


Sometimes I would forget to top off radiator and truck would start to get hot. I would pull over, top off radiator and continue on.


Saw the white smoke and water in tailpipe back in January. Bought some Bar's Leaks and put a half-bottle in according to recommendations. The white smoke seemed to abate....so I changed the oil and about a quart of water poured out before emulsified oil. Drove the truck about 20 miles or so and checked water the following morning only to see some water missing.


Took the truck into a local shop and reported all that is mentioned above....including the oil change info. They got back to me the next day and said that they did a "chemical test" and that their professional opinion was that the head gasket was not blown....or had been repaired by the Bar's Leak.


I took the truck on a 300 mile round trip drive last week and it needed almost a full gallon of water to each way. I did not let it get close to overheating.


Took the truck back to the same shop. Heard nothing from them for a full week and decided to stop in yesterday. They sheepishly told me that they did a compression check and decided that the head gasket was blown.


Learned that they do no do work on "interference engines." I then called a place that was recommended to do the work and they said that they would not "touch it" because they would be afraid that restored compression would ruin an engine with 287,000 miles on it...and that the engine "bearings" might be bad. They felt that they could not warranty the repair.


I love this truck and it runs really well - despite the head gasket problem... but I live on a mountainside with gravel driveway and no garage. Head gasket repair is above my pay grade anyway.



If I were to be able to find a shop willing to do the repair....along with timing chain replacement, what should I expect to pay? Any other advice with how to proceed with solving this problem would be appreciated!

LugNut1990 03-20-2021 11:28 AM

Do you have the time, indoor-space, tools, and will to learn how to D-I-Y? If so, that's the way to go! Start by rebuliding a lawn mower engine though.


And it helps to have a friend who can oversee. And a good machine shop nearby.

XoXSciFiGuy 03-20-2021 11:55 AM

You have to research out local shops in your area that actually KNOW how to work on these rigs. It gets tougher all the time, but they are out there. Sometimes you have to talk to them in person and ask.

The last hardbody rolled off the USA assembly line twenty-four years ago. If it were 1970 right now, you would be looking at finding a shop that can work on a 1946 model. These shops are still out there, but you have to find them.

alabama_lowlife 03-20-2021 12:10 PM

While most people expect that coolant in the oil is the result of a blown head gasket, on the KA24E it’s more likely that the timing chain cut a hole in the timing cover coolant passage and is allowing coolant to spill into the crankcase. With the valve cover removed you should be able to verify if that is the problem in your case. If so you can just have the timing chain replaced and a new timing cover installed. This may not apply to your truck since they claim it failed the compression test, but I’m not sure if trust anything they say.

I’ve got to say, the shops in your area sound incompetent as hell. “Don’t work on interference engines” what a load of bull. A head gasket is a pretty straight forward task. I’m not sure what to expect to pay for it. It’s been quite a while since I’ve had one done, it was my wife’s truck and we needed it back quickly.

Hoseman1958 03-20-2021 01:37 PM

Thank you A! That's good information. I drove by the shop several times during the week and could see that the vehicle was still in the original space where I parked it...during a time when they have lot's of cars there due to the stimulus checks. I have smelled gas after driving the vehicle and the "technician" told me that the gas leak problem was associated with the head gasket problem. Is it possible that the gas problem has something to do with the timing chain.....which on this vehicle has never been changed? It bears repeating that they told me they originally did a "chemical" test which they insisted was entirely dependable at diagnosing a bad head gasket.



I have a compression test kit but have never used it. I have a neighbor who I think would assist me with that. I think I saw something in one of the posts I read that says I should expect compression readings of @ 150 psi for each cylinder?



I will work on getting the valve cover removed so that I can try to start figuring this out. I'll post back when I learn more. Thank you again!

alabama_lowlife 03-20-2021 02:23 PM

I’m not sure how a gas leak could be associated with a head gasket problem. Unless the problem isn’t a gas leak, but some sort of issue with excess fuel being supplied by the ECM due to erroneous readings from the oxygen sensor because of contamination from the blown head gasket. But I would wait until the head gasket is either fixed or ruled out before addressing that issue. Unless of course there is an actual fuel leak which should be fixed ASAP for safety purposes.

With higher mileage you’re likely to see lower compression numbers. This alone would not necessarily be cause for concern as long as they are consistent across the board. So if you see 130 psi on all cylinders I wouldn’t worry about it. Yes, this will adversely affect performance but unless you’re wanting to rebuild the engine to regain slight power loss due to age, it’s not an immediate cause for concern.

What would indicate a blown head gasket is a substantially low reading from one or more cylinders, especially if those cylinders are adjacent. I think the most common failure I see reported online is the gasket blown between cylinders #2&3.

The area where the timing chain cuts the timing cover is on the driver side of the engine. There is usually not a easily visible open hole. There is usually a worn rectangular area, then one edge will finally get just a slim sliver of an opening that allows the coolant to escape. It’s pressurized so it only takes a little thin slice. The hole may not be visible but the worn area should be.

jp2code 03-21-2021 12:14 AM

Get on some social media site like Facebook, join a local group, and ask to hire someone who knows what they are doing. Tell them you need a head gasket and timing chain done on your old Nissan D21 truck.

You will be surprised by the number of people who respond.

Hoseman1958 03-26-2021 03:20 PM

I've started into this project.



I can't get the crank bolt to crack. I've read in earlier threads that it might be possible to crack the crank bolt by putting the truck in 4th or 5th gear and hitting a breaker bar with a hammer. This isn't working.....there is still to much "give" to allow the bolt to crack. Does anyone have any other ideas?

VOTS95 03-26-2021 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp2code (Post 546913)
Get on some social media site like Facebook, join a local group, and ask to hire someone who knows what they are doing. Tell them you need a head gasket and timing chain done on your old Nissan D21 truck.

You will be surprised by the number of people who respond.

^^ I thought this was good advice.

You put the transmission in 5th gear. Have someone get in the truck and put their foot on the brake pedal while you break the crank bolt free. You can also chock the wheels. I'd put the engine at TDC before I broke it loose. Read up on replacing the HG procedure in detail before you start taking parts off.

VOTS

Hoseman1958 03-26-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 546889)
Iím not sure how a gas leak could be associated with a head gasket problem. Unless the problem isnít a gas leak, but some sort of issue with excess fuel being supplied by the ECM due to erroneous readings from the oxygen sensor because of contamination from the blown head gasket. But I would wait until the head gasket is either fixed or ruled out before addressing that issue. Unless of course there is an actual fuel leak which should be fixed ASAP for safety purposes.

With higher mileage youíre likely to see lower compression numbers. This alone would not necessarily be cause for concern as long as they are consistent across the board. So if you see 130 psi on all cylinders I wouldnít worry about it. Yes, this will adversely affect performance but unless youíre wanting to rebuild the engine to regain slight power loss due to age, itís not an immediate cause for concern.

What would indicate a blown head gasket is a substantially low reading from one or more cylinders, especially if those cylinders are adjacent. I think the most common failure I see reported online is the gasket blown between cylinders #2&3.

The area where the timing chain cuts the timing cover is on the driver side of the engine. There is usually not a easily visible open hole. There is usually a worn rectangular area, then one edge will finally get just a slim sliver of an opening that allows the coolant to escape. Itís pressurized so it only takes a little thin slice. The hole may not be visible but the worn area should be.


A - I have the valve cover off and can see that the chain guide on the driver's side is completely gone with a thin, but pronounced worn edge into the metal of the timing chain cover by the chain. I will replace the cover when I put the new chain and guides it.....but is there any way to know whether or not the head gasket is also blown without either removing the head....or putting everything back together and doing a compression test?

jp2code 03-26-2021 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 547170)
I can't get the crank bolt to crack. I've read in earlier threads that it might be possible to crack the crank bolt by putting the truck in 4th or 5th gear and hitting a breaker bar with a hammer. This isn't working.....there is still to much "give" to allow the bolt to crack. Does anyone have any other ideas?

What I've done is loop a cargo strap around the harmonic balancer with the other end anchored to the frame. Crank down the cargo strap, and the harmonic balancer won't move, allowing you to bust that bolt lose.

That technique is common enough that I was able to find a picture online:

https://content.invisioncic.com/r277...70aeed4a9e.JPG

Source: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/301166...ancer-removal/

alabama_lowlife 03-26-2021 06:20 PM

Realistically, the only thing I can recommend is to do a compression check.

When I go to loosen the crank bolt I use a breaker bar. I place the beaker bar against the frame of the truck and briefly bump the ignition switch to start. It has enough torque to break the bolt loose. You just have to be extremely careful.

Hoseman1958 03-26-2021 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOTS95 (Post 547172)
^^ I thought this was good advice.

You put the transmission in 5th gear. Have someone get in the truck and put their foot on the brake pedal while you break the crank bolt free. You can also chock the wheels. I'd put the engine at TDC before I broke it loose. Read up on replacing the HG procedure in detail before you start taking parts off.

VOTS


Thanks for the quick response.


Got a neighbor to put his foot on the brake while in 5th gear...and the crank bolt is off. Any idea where the screw holes for the harmonic balancer puller are?

jp2code 03-26-2021 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 547181)
Any idea where the screw holes for the harmonic balancer puller are?

They are really small. M6 or M8, if they are like the V6. I wasn't able to find a puller with bolts that small, so I used a puller that had the 3 fingers.

Just be careful and don't crank too hard on it. Put a little tension on the puller and tap around the harmonic balancer with a mallet or ball peen hammer. Then put a little more tension on the puller. Tap some more with the hammer. Keep going until the harmonic balancer slides off.

Hoseman1958 03-26-2021 06:51 PM

In trying to align everything TDC, I first put a paint mark on harmonic balancer to match up with pin sticking out of timing chain cover. In doing this though, the keyhole on the cam sprocket is not pointing due north....it is pointing more like 11:00. The punch mark on the cam sprocket is at 1:00 or 2:00. The rotor is pointing to cylinder 1 and I put corresponding paint marks on both the distributor and the cylinder head. The truck was running pretty smoothly before I started all of this. Should I be concerned that the keyhole on cam sprocket is not pointing 12:00.....or should I just install the new sprocket in the 11:00 position?

VOTS95 03-26-2021 07:10 PM

I'm not familiar with getting the 4 cylinder to TDC. Use the FSM, our Stickeys, Google, Youtube, etc. and make sure you have this correct.

I've always used the three jaw puller when removing the crank pulley. Like JP says, take your time, maybe squirt some PB Blaster in behind the pulley before you begin.

https://i.imgur.com/9Q56pfHl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1HFjJ0fl.jpg

VOTS

Hoseman1958 03-26-2021 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp2code (Post 547183)
They are really small. M6 or M8, if they are like the V6. I wasn't able to find a puller with bolts that small, so I used a puller that had the 3 fingers.

Just be careful and don't crank too hard on it. Put a little tension on the puller and tap around the harmonic balancer with a mallet or ball peen hammer. Then put a little more tension on the puller. Tap some more with the hammer. Keep going until the harmonic balancer slides off.


Thanks for the suggestions. I will adhere to them and try and post an update once I get the timing chain cover off.

amdilligaf1 03-29-2021 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 547179)
Realistically, the only thing I can recommend is to do a compression check.

When I go to loosen the crank bolt I use a breaker bar. I place the beaker bar against the frame of the truck and briefly bump the ignition switch to start. It has enough torque to break the bolt loose. You just have to be extremely careful.

and make sure to remove your fuel pump fuse before you BRIEFLY bump the ignition.
you don't want it to start, just turn over enough to crack the nut loose.

LugNut1990 03-29-2021 03:01 AM

Never put a two/three-toed puller on an harmonic balancer (HB), nor use that strap technique. Easily can damage or destroy the HB which normally has a thin rubber layer that absorbs impulses.

alabama_lowlife 03-29-2021 11:36 AM

Several of your questions can be answered by looking at the pictures in this thread. The bolts that thread into the harmonic balancer are M6x1.0
http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=33948

jp2code 03-29-2021 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugNut1990 (Post 547278)
Never put a two/three-toed puller on an harmonic balancer (HB), nor use that strap technique. Easily can damage or destroy the HB which normally has a thin rubber layer that absorbs impulses.

BTW, that thin, rubber layer does come apart.

https://i.imgur.com/5zkcMETh.jpg

Hoseman1958 03-29-2021 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 547293)
Several of your questions can be answered by looking at the pictures in this thread. The bolts that thread into the harmonic balancer are M6x1.0
http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=33948


Dang! Thank you A! I have watched many videos on this, but wrote down all the steps from this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO8i429ayo4 to serve as a road map.


I don't feel like an idiot when I say I did not see the timing marks on the harmonic balancer and marked it with paint at the point directly on the timing cover pin. Nonetheless, the location of the key hole on the cam sprocket corresponds to the picture in the manual....and the rotor is pointing to the cylinder 1. Today I was going to remove harmonic balancer, distrubutor, oil pump, and front timing cover.



When I crawled under the truck, I double checked for the timing marks on the balancer and I saw them at @ 8:00 position. I put the crank bolt back on and turned until the first mark lines up with the cover pin....which your pics tell me is about 20 degrees before top dead center. Now the keyhole on the cam sprocket is pointing due north. If I move over to the TDC mark, the keyhole on cam sprocket will end up being at 1:00.



The entire right chain guide is "missing" and presumed to be in the oil pan. Is it possible that the chain has skipped a link or two?


I am waiting on the parts, and when they get here, I have a neighbor with lots of experience who will help me.....but even he has seemed confused about how to ensure we are at TDC on the compression stroke on cylinder #1.



Regarding the oil pan. Wish I hadn't read about the amount of trouble I would have if I need to remove the oil pan completely (this is 4x4.) I'm not going to be able to do it in these circumstances and am going to have to hope for the best. Any chance that the plastic chain guide parts have melted and worked their way through the system?



This pictorial that you provided though gives me great confidence about putting everything back together once we are through. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide the thread link! One other thing.....my harmonic balancer does not have the screw holes so....I bought the 3 jaw puller set from Harbor Freight and will use the "tap method" I have seen described to try and remove the puller.


One final thing....I am trying to do all the grunt work in advance so that my neighbor can can show up and help with the "experience stuff." If I line up the timing marks on the harmonic balancer with the timing cover pin....as shown in your pics, will I be safe in moving forward with next steps to remove timing chain cover if keyhole on camshaft and rotor direction are only "roughly correct?"

alabama_lowlife 03-29-2021 09:12 PM

The location of the cam sprocket keyway is a secondary concern.

I say that because basically, the ONLY concern is that the piston in the #1 cylinder is at top dead center on the compression stroke. Top dead center is when the piston is at the top of its travel and is just about to start dropping back down. With the #1 spark plug removed you can use a wooden dowel, screwdriver, or similar object to feel the piston as it rises to the top and then drops back to the bottom. Be sure not to scratch the piston or cylinder wall and don’t allow the object to become wedged into the hole by the piston.

Now that we know how to find TDC we have to make sure it’s on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. If you cover the spark plug hole with your thumb you will feel pressure building as the piston rises to TDC on the compression stroke. If you’re on the exhaust stroke you will not feel pressure building as the piston rises to TDC.

So, you’ve got the piston to TDC. You are pretty sure it’s the compression stroke because you could feel the pressure building. Now we look at the distributor rotor and confirm that it’s pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on the distributor cap. We look at all 3 valves on the #1 cylinder to confirm they are closed. We look at the keyway on the cam and see if it is at about 12 o’clock. It doesn’t have to be spot on, just in the ballpark because we already KNOW the piston is right.

Now you take everything off and install the new chain. Align the bright chain link with the dimple on the crank sprocket first, because the crank sprocket is always right. Then align the cam sprocket dimple with the second bright link. If anything needs to move, the cam moves, never the crank. The crank is always right.

alabama_lowlife 03-29-2021 09:18 PM

There were 2-3 sets of plastic guides in the oil pan on my 4wd HB before I decided I should drop the pan. They fall way down to the bottom, they’re not going to get sucked up into the pickup screen. On a 2wd, yeah, drop that pan and clean everything up. On a 4wd...shit, there are not many things I dislike more that dropping the front differential and oil pan on a 4wd HB. I’ve got a pretty decent little shop at my house too, but to hell with that lol

Hoseman1958 03-30-2021 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOTS95 (Post 547188)
I'm not familiar with getting the 4 cylinder to TDC. Use the FSM, our Stickeys, Google, Youtube, etc. and make sure you have this correct.

I've always used the three jaw puller when removing the crank pulley. Like JP says, take your time, maybe squirt some PB Blaster in behind the pulley before you begin.

https://i.imgur.com/9Q56pfHl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1HFjJ0fl.jpg

VOTS

So I bought the Harbor Freight 3 puller set.....very similar to what VOTS95 shows in his pic earlier in the thread. The drive bolt for the 6" version is way too long. The only way it might work is if I pull the radiator. I have the same type of front pulley with the six 10M or whatever bolts surrounding the crank bolt that he shows in one of his pics. Should I just remove two opposing bolts and try to use the other style puller (which I have.....also the Harbor Freight version?)

VOTS95 03-30-2021 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 547341)
So I bought the Harbor Freight 3 puller set.....very similar to what VOTS95 shows in his pic earlier in the thread. Should I just remove two opposing bolts and try to use the other style puller (which I have.....also the Harbor Freight version?)

I have both type of pullers as well, I prefer the three-jaw. Both types should work but if you can remove the pulley without removing the radiator, do that it's less work. However it doesn't take much to remove the radiator.

In the pictures below, the pulley on the left (VG30E) is bolted together. It won't come apart if your use a 2/3-jaw puller on it. You would need to shear off all six bolts to get it to separate.

The pulley on the right (VG33E) is pressed together and can come apart under the right circumstances. I used a three jaw puller on this one and it came right off.

https://i.imgur.com/NDGxETTl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rBhLAmpl.jpg

VOTS

XoXSciFiGuy 03-31-2021 11:49 AM

Most of the time, the pulley will come off using a short piece of wood and a good heavy hammer. Just tap one side, then the other. Rinse and repeat. A bunch of times. Tap-tap-tap this side. Tap-tap-tap the other. Patience works here. Don't get crazy with the hammer. You are breaking it loose, not pounding it loose. When you break the grip, it usually comes off easily. I have never had to use a puller. Remove radiator first for best results.

Hoseman1958 04-01-2021 05:57 PM

Alright. I just made a big mistake. I forgot that put the crank bolt back in when I realized that I hadn't aligned the crank pulley with the TDC mark. .....I removed the radiator and forgot to take the crank bolt back out when I used a 3 jaw puller to try and remove the harmonic balancer. I cracked a piece off of the middle pulley on the balancer before I realized my mistake. I have checked the internet and the local parts yards....so if I buy a new balancer at Rock Auto, the price is $100 plus shipping.



Went ahead and removed the distributor, oil pump and all the timing cover bolts that I think I can see.


It looks like the water intake and water pump need to come off too. I replaced water pump and thermostat about 4 years ago (roughly 4000 miles ago.) Should I remove those parts and replace with new while I am doing this? Once I think I have clearance to remove the timing cover....where is the seam where I can put a flat screwdriver in or something to pry off the cover.



I was trying to be so careful and made a careless mistake....but I'm committed now and will take my time to try and do it right. Any additional advice about getting the timing cover off would be helpful.....and thank ya'll so much for taking the time to help me get this far!

jp2code 04-01-2021 06:12 PM

If you have the part number, search Amazon and eBay. Sometimes their prices are better.

I want to say that I paid about $60 for mine, shipped.

Hoseman1958 04-01-2021 06:31 PM

Thanks JP. Just ordered the part for $69 shipped.

XoXSciFiGuy 04-02-2021 05:15 AM

Quote:

'I was trying to be so careful and made a careless mistake....but I'm committed now and will take my time to try and do it right. Any additional advice about getting the timing cover off would be helpful.....and thank ya'll so much for taking the time to help me get this far!'
Timing covers are brittle as hell because of the thousands of heat-ups, (running truck) and cool-downs, (sitting truck) over so many years. DO NOT DROP THE COVER. It will crack for sure. Some people lay an old blanket on the ground...just in case.
  • You have to remove the oil pan. You probably knew that already.
  • Don't use a screwdriver to try and pry it loose. It will leak afterward for sure. Or crack or break.
  • Rubber mallet works best. First one side gently, then the other. Go all around. Easy doing this, no hard whacks.
  • You can use a Stanley knife blade to 'gently' free up the old sealant, and a ball peen hammer, but keep the blade straight and try not to nick into the metal. You get the blade in there and work it in a downward direction. I would lock the blade down with a small vise grip and then tap tap tap gently.
    You are better off using Scotch Brite pads to clean up the mating surface on the timing cover side, rather than trying to scrape it with a blade. On the block side you can use a blade.
  • When you put the timing cover back ON...don't overtighten the bolts. Biggest mistake people make. You will definitely crack the cover, especially on the bottom corner bolts.
    I think it's 10 pounds max on the cover bolts. That's factory-new numbers. I have done no more than 8 pounds and let the sealer and the gasket do their job. No leaks. No need to overtighten.
  • The best way to set Top Dead Center is to remove the Number One spark plug and stick your finger over the hole. Use your big wrench to bring the crank pulley around. When the air pushes your finger out of the way, you are on the compression stroke. Put a skinny screwdriver in the spark plug hole and turn the crank pulley this way, then that way, just a little bit each way. You will feel the top of the piston coming up by feeling with the screwdriver. When it reaches the top of the stroke, just move the pulley back and forth a tiny bit more until you know the piston has reached the very top of the compression stroke.
    Then...stop. You are at TDC on the compression stroke. From there, everything just goes back in normally.
  • If you finish everything, start the truck, and it rocks, rolls, and backfires on you...this means you are off a tooth on the oil pump gear. One tooth off when shoving that pump up the engine's wazoo is equal to TWENTY degrees of timing. (Sixteen teeth on the gear, equals 20 degrees of timing for each tooth.)
  • If you have an assistant looking down the distributor hole with a flashlight...from above...while you are trying to install the oil pump...to make sure the shaft is installed correctly...this is MUCH easier than getting up and down off the ground to look all the time.

Hoseman1958 04-02-2021 04:46 PM

Thanks SciFi! This is all useful information. I hope though that I can get the timing cover off w/o removing the oil pan. I can probably loosen it up a good bit by removing most of the screws, but the front differential is too much of a barrier. I bought a new timing cover because I think that the timing chain has scored a hole in it that is allowing the coolant to leak into the engine. I'll post again once I get the timing cover off and can see what the damage is. I'll post some pics too.

XoXSciFiGuy 04-03-2021 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 547433)
Thanks SciFi! This is all useful information. I hope though that I can get the timing cover off w/o removing the oil pan. I can probably loosen it up a good bit by removing most of the screws, but the front differential is too much of a barrier. I bought a new timing cover because I think that the timing chain has scored a hole in it that is allowing the coolant to leak into the engine. I'll post again once I get the timing cover off and can see what the damage is. I'll post some pics too.

It is possible to remove the front cover without completely dropping the oil pan, especially if you get good drop in the front. But...then there is a chance the pan might leak once the gasket is uncompressed, and then re-compressed. Might want to shoot some gasket sealer around the pan lip as much as possible before putting those ten mm bolts back to it.

You have the Factory Service Manual for this truck, right? If not, drop me a message at adventurebooksofseattle AT Gmail dot com and tell me the year of your truck.

Hoseman1958 04-03-2021 05:39 PM

OK, I got the timing cover off. There is thin line scored into the metal on the outside of the coolant passageway barrier. On the inside of that barrier, corresponding directly to the scored line on the other side, is a line of yellow shmoo. If I did it right, pics are below.


This first pic doesn't show the complete absence of drivers side chain guide.

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1SAeu...WThSvLpg8oMdzp


The 2nd pic below shows the driver's side with missing chain guide near coolant passageway.


https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Lgen...01z5_c7iPvP6kn

The 3rd pic below shows the scored line below the lip of the coolant passageway on the inside of the timing cover driver's side.



https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1NApC...Y_zDCLSgdY3pR_






4th pic below shows line of "shmoo" on inside of coolant passageway which corresponds directly opposite to the scored line shown on outside of passageway shown above.



https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MZez...dyxIA41J_L-hxh


Before I started this, I thought that my head gasket was blown and I ran a half bottle of "Bars Leaks" through the system. That yellow stuff could be some residue from that. If I am successful in replacing timing chain parts including cover, I hope to be able to do some type of compression test to rule out the need for removing the cylinder head and replacing head gasket.


http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...Y_zDCLSgdY3pR_http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...Y_zDCLSgdY3pR_http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...dyxIA41J_L-hxh


http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...uot;></iframe>



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAe...ew?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1NAp...ew?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZe...ew?usp=sharing

alabama_lowlife 04-04-2021 12:52 AM

I think the link to the images aren’t copied correctly. I tried editing the post to see if I could fix it but the only one that I can copy/paste the link and get to the image is the one that shows up here.

If it appears the coolant passage has been breached you’ll need to replace the timing cover.

Hoseman1958 04-04-2021 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 547475)
I think the link to the images arenít copied correctly. I tried editing the post to see if I could fix it but the only one that I can copy/paste the link and get to the image is the one that shows up here.

If it appears the coolant passage has been breached youíll need to replace the timing cover.

A - I edited the post above so that it now shows the other pics. It looks like you were "spot on" about a scored timing cover being at least part of the problem. Is it too early to ask how far into the "reassembly process" I need to be before I can do some kind of compression test on the cylinders to try and rule out a blown head gasket?

Hoseman1958 04-04-2021 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy (Post 547406)
Timing covers are brittle as hell because of the thousands of heat-ups, (running truck) and cool-downs, (sitting truck) over so many years. DO NOT DROP THE COVER. It will crack for sure. Some people lay an old blanket on the ground...just in case.
  • You have to remove the oil pan. You probably knew that already.
  • Don't use a screwdriver to try and pry it loose. It will leak afterward for sure. Or crack or break.
  • Rubber mallet works best. First one side gently, then the other. Go all around. Easy doing this, no hard whacks.
  • You can use a Stanley knife blade to 'gently' free up the old sealant, and a ball peen hammer, but keep the blade straight and try not to nick into the metal. You get the blade in there and work it in a downward direction. I would lock the blade down with a small vise grip and then tap tap tap gently.
    You are better off using Scotch Brite pads to clean up the mating surface on the timing cover side, rather than trying to scrape it with a blade. On the block side you can use a blade.
  • When you put the timing cover back ON...don't overtighten the bolts. Biggest mistake people make. You will definitely crack the cover, especially on the bottom corner bolts.
    I think it's 10 pounds max on the cover bolts. That's factory-new numbers. I have done no more than 8 pounds and let the sealer and the gasket do their job. No leaks. No need to overtighten.
  • The best way to set Top Dead Center is to remove the Number One spark plug and stick your finger over the hole. Use your big wrench to bring the crank pulley around. When the air pushes your finger out of the way, you are on the compression stroke. Put a skinny screwdriver in the spark plug hole and turn the crank pulley this way, then that way, just a little bit each way. You will feel the top of the piston coming up by feeling with the screwdriver. When it reaches the top of the stroke, just move the pulley back and forth a tiny bit more until you know the piston has reached the very top of the compression stroke.
    Then...stop. You are at TDC on the compression stroke. From there, everything just goes back in normally.
  • If you finish everything, start the truck, and it rocks, rolls, and backfires on you...this means you are off a tooth on the oil pump gear. One tooth off when shoving that pump up the engine's wazoo is equal to TWENTY degrees of timing. (Sixteen teeth on the gear, equals 20 degrees of timing for each tooth.)
  • If you have an assistant looking down the distributor hole with a flashlight...from above...while you are trying to install the oil pump...to make sure the shaft is installed correctly...this is MUCH easier than getting up and down off the ground to look all the time.


SciFi - I used a mallet tapping the handle end of a ratchet wrapped in a rag with the ratchet head wedged into rounded areas near the distributor opening on driver's side, and the thermostat opening on the passenger side. Thanks for the advice. For the removal part, I only needed to remove 4 front facing screws on the oil pan.



Regarding the "scotch brite," I have a new timing cover that looks like it has some burrs on the mating surface. How would you recommend removing those (they look like magnet filings along the inside edge?)

XoXSciFiGuy 04-04-2021 11:35 AM

Clean EVERYTHING. It will be your only shot to do it.

alabama_lowlife 04-04-2021 11:49 PM

It’s a bit of a coin flip on the compression test. It is possible that the loss of coolant into the crankcase could have caused the truck to run hot and blow the head gasket. If it were me I would take the chance that the head gasket didn’t blow. Put everything back together enough to do the compression test. Otherwise you’re left with just replacing the head gasket without knowing. I’d definitely do the compression test before I tried to start the truck but I wouldn’t change the head gasket until I knew.

Hoseman1958 04-05-2021 06:10 AM

Thank you A! I was hoping to hear something like that....but I'm committed now and will tear it all back down again if I need to.

Hoseman1958 04-05-2021 07:51 PM

I don't know what the part shown in the picture below is, but it was attached to the timing cover (directly below the thermostat housing) and had a hose attached to it at the back. Whatever it is, I probably need to replace it because it is clogged with some sort of cloudy looking sludge:


https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1lf-9...NoeyLRKodm5BfS

jp2code 04-05-2021 08:11 PM

I've never seen anything like that before.

I know there is a coolant line that goes through the intake. The ECU uses that to help with cold starts.

Or, that could be something that helps with the inside heater.

Interesting.

SBJ 04-05-2021 08:26 PM

That's the PCV baffle. The PCV valve threads into it and should be replaced at the same time since it'll never be easier. You can spray some carb cleaner in there to clean it out. I think it's plastic so I'd be hesitant to soak it in solvents.

Hoseman1958 04-07-2021 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy (Post 547406)
Timing covers are brittle as hell because of the thousands of heat-ups, (running truck) and cool-downs, (sitting truck) over so many years. DO NOT DROP THE COVER. It will crack for sure. Some people lay an old blanket on the ground...just in case.
  • You have to remove the oil pan. You probably knew that already.
  • Don't use a screwdriver to try and pry it loose. It will leak afterward for sure. Or crack or break.
  • Rubber mallet works best. First one side gently, then the other. Go all around. Easy doing this, no hard whacks.
  • You can use a Stanley knife blade to 'gently' free up the old sealant, and a ball peen hammer, but keep the blade straight and try not to nick into the metal. You get the blade in there and work it in a downward direction. I would lock the blade down with a small vise grip and then tap tap tap gently.
    You are better off using Scotch Brite pads to clean up the mating surface on the timing cover side, rather than trying to scrape it with a blade. On the block side you can use a blade.
  • When you put the timing cover back ON...don't overtighten the bolts. Biggest mistake people make. You will definitely crack the cover, especially on the bottom corner bolts.
    I think it's 10 pounds max on the cover bolts. That's factory-new numbers. I have done no more than 8 pounds and let the sealer and the gasket do their job. No leaks. No need to overtighten.
  • The best way to set Top Dead Center is to remove the Number One spark plug and stick your finger over the hole. Use your big wrench to bring the crank pulley around. When the air pushes your finger out of the way, you are on the compression stroke. Put a skinny screwdriver in the spark plug hole and turn the crank pulley this way, then that way, just a little bit each way. You will feel the top of the piston coming up by feeling with the screwdriver. When it reaches the top of the stroke, just move the pulley back and forth a tiny bit more until you know the piston has reached the very top of the compression stroke.
    Then...stop. You are at TDC on the compression stroke. From there, everything just goes back in normally.
  • If you finish everything, start the truck, and it rocks, rolls, and backfires on you...this means you are off a tooth on the oil pump gear. One tooth off when shoving that pump up the engine's wazoo is equal to TWENTY degrees of timing. (Sixteen teeth on the gear, equals 20 degrees of timing for each tooth.)
  • If you have an assistant looking down the distributor hole with a flashlight...from above...while you are trying to install the oil pump...to make sure the shaft is installed correctly...this is MUCH easier than getting up and down off the ground to look all the time.

Awright.....got everything back together and the truck started right up....but is running somewhat rough compared to before the repair. No backfiring, just not as smooth as before.


We moved the distributor around to its limit in both directions with only minimal improvement. Would a good guess be that we are off a tooth with the oil pump spindle? If so, any hint on whether to turn it clockwise or counter clockwise? Is there any other reason that the timing might be off? Installed new distributor cap, rotor, plugs, and plug wires using clockwise firing order 1,3,4,2. Anything wrong with that configuration?



Need to admit that the thermostat housing seems to be leaking (because I used rtv alone w/o a paper gasket probably.) I also forgot to tighten at least one of the bolts on the water pump. I will be removing the damned fan shroud once again to solve those problems.


Any advice on the timing / oil pump spindle would be appreciated. All in all, the truck starts and runs good....just not near as quiet and smooth as it did before I started all of this.



SciFi, if you are reading this.....I just discovered your post in this thread with some better information on timing issues following a timing chain replacement: http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ferrerid=10942. In addition to the possibility that we are "off a tooth" on oil pump spindle/distributor....what if I wasn't absolutely on TDC when I put the chain on? I think I mentioned earlier that the key way on the cam sprocket seemed a little off. I think it ended up being at @ 1:00 position. I have a wooden dowel that I tried to use to be as accurate as possible on that, but it kept getting pinched in the cylinder and I don't think I was able to use it effectively. Would it be smart to try and optimize "TDC on the compression stroke" before we try to re-adjust oil pump spindle. I also forgot to ensure "punchmark alignment" relating new oil pump to spindle. This may be a dumb question, but do I need to drain the oil again before we start messing with re-positioning the oil pump/spindle? With all of this said, we are pretty close....so I am trying develop a strategy to make it close to perfect.

jp2code 04-07-2021 09:24 PM

There are lots of people in this group who have done their own timing chain job, and just about everyone comes back saying it messed up.

My V6 has the timing belt. It is also a pain to get right, and I messed it up the first time I did it.

That said, most owners who go back in there wind up getting it fixed right the 2nd time. For me, the instructions seemed to make more sense the 2nd time around. Maybe that's the same deal with the KA24e engine.

I really think that timing cover should have a rubber gasket. Making an RTV seal just doesn't sit well with me.

Hoseman1958 04-20-2021 01:47 PM

So, it looks like the "scored" timing chain cover was the culprit regarding the coolant in the oil. The new timing cover, chain, etc. are installed.....but with the help of a neighbor with mechanic skills, we have been working for two weeks off an on to get the oil pump situated right. The truck runs now, but it is rough and lacking power. we have tried everything that has been suggested on this forum.....many times and are close...but not close enough to getting the truck running correctly.



I would like to take it to a professional shop to see if they can get it right but, given the aforementioned hesitancy from several places to work on a vehicle with an "interference engine" or to warranty a repair on old "interference engine," I'm casting about for the right language to use when seeking a quote so that I don't get soaked financially in the deal. Any suggestions about how approach a repair shop with this problem would be appreciated.


In my mind, what needs to be communicated is to insert that oil pump using the correct "tooth alignment" with punchmarks for pump and spindle matching, when the truck is on tdc compression stroke and rotor point to cylinder # 1.

alabama_lowlife 04-20-2021 03:35 PM

I can explain to you how to get it set correctly on the phone one afternoon if you’d like. I’m occupied this afternoon but I’m available most afternoons after about 3 pm central.

Hoseman1958 04-20-2021 04:41 PM

Thank you K! If Thursday at 3:00 PM Central will be good for you, I'll call at the appointed time. My neighbor Gary who has been helping me will be here.

jp2code 04-20-2021 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548166)
Thank you K! If Thursday at 3:00 PM Central will be good for you, I'll call at the appointed time. My neighbor Gary who has been helping me will be here.

Let him know when you have his number written down so he can remove it from the internet, if he wants.

alabama_lowlife 04-20-2021 05:27 PM

Sounds good, go ahead and remove the #1 spark plug and the distributor. Leave the oil pump and shaft installed.

Hoseman1958 04-20-2021 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp2code (Post 548169)
Let him know when you have his number written down so he can remove it from the internet, if he wants.

Done!

Hoseman1958 04-20-2021 06:15 PM

Will do. Thank you! Look forward to meeting you!

Hoseman1958 04-21-2021 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 548170)
Sounds good, go ahead and remove the #1 spark plug and the distributor. Leave the oil pump and shaft installed.

Will I also need to remove fan/fan shroud so that we can get on the crank bolt?

alabama_lowlife 04-21-2021 01:11 PM

Yes, that would help too.

Hoseman1958 04-27-2021 04:33 AM

I'm grateful to this forum for all of the help I received on this project. Nonetheless, it does not have a happy ending. After countless attempts to get the timing right, we did a compression test yesterday and the results shows 1: 140, 2: 115 3: 135 and 4: 135.



My neighbor says that the valves on number 2 are probably bad. I'm pretty sure that it is something we did wrong in the process that led to this.....because the truck pretty much ran like a sewing machine before we started. At one point, it was suggested by my help that we move the position of the plug wires on the distributor in a clockwise direction. When we tried to start it, the truck seemed to seize. Freed everything up the next morning with breaker bar on crank bolt.....and can get the truck to run, but not without sputtering.


Neighbor says that he and another guy could probably do a "valve job".....so I asked him for a quote, and I'm waiting to hear back.



I need a light duty truck and want to salvage this one. Would appreciate any advice on how to proceed with a valve job / rebuild.



One other thing.....when I put the timing chain on, I made sure that the colored links lined up with the punch marks on both the crank sprocket and cam sprocket. When I put the tensioner on, there was just a wee bit of slack just near the crank sprocket on passenger side. Is there any chance that somehow, the chain jumped a link....and if so, could that have caused the valves to fail?

SBJ 04-27-2021 04:51 AM

Do you feel anything binding if you spin the engine over with a ratchet? It's different than the normal resistance you feel from the compression, and you'll know it when you feel it. You can also take the spark plugs out to make it easier to turn the engine over. I've never seen the timing chain jump on one of these, although I suppose it could happen. Usually you have to be more than just one tooth off for the valves to hit the pistons.

If you know for sure that the head has to come off again, IMO I'd just take it to a machine shop and be done with it. The last time I took a head to a machine shop it was ~$200 to get it resurfaced, have the valves lapped and the valve stem seals replaced. That was for a DOHC 16 valve head out of an older Tacoma. Not identical by any means but they should be pretty similar price wise.

Hoseman1958 04-27-2021 06:18 AM

No, there isn't anything binding when you turn with a ratchet. I'm pretty sure that the oil pump shaft is in correct position with number one cylinder on TDC. Truck runs, but there is a new "metallic" element sound to the rough idle.


I should note that when I removed harmonic balancer with number one cylinder on tdc, the timing notches were way down at @ 9:00. I put a paint mark on the balancer at the actual spot where the pin sticking out of the timing cover was. I forgot about this, and when we realized it yesterday and aligned the harmonic balancer (new) to correspond to the paint mark on old balancer, we got our best result of the whole process.


Unfortunately, something had already happened to the valves on number 2. We pulled all the plugs. They were new....and numbers 2 and 3 were carbon-ed up. The compression test then showed the weakness of number 2.


Thank you for the additional info regarding the machine shop. I have a head gasket and new bolts. What additional parts might I need to buy for the valve work?

SBJ 04-27-2021 06:46 AM

You'll need to get some new valve stem seals. OE ones are probably the best choice given the amount of work involved in replacing them, but I have also had good luck with fel-pro seals in the past. Don't buy cheap no name ones. You'll also need some new valves if any of them are bent or otherwise damaged. The machine shop might want to source these parts themselves.

With the head off one thing you can do is remove the camshaft (so all the valves will be closed) then flip the head upside down and pour some water into the combustion chamber. If any of the valves aren't sealing you'll see it dripping out of the intake/exhaust ports, depending on which valve it is.

jp2code 04-27-2021 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548514)
At one point, it was suggested by my help that we move the position of the plug wires on the distributor in a clockwise direction.

Neighbor says that he and another guy could probably do a "valve job".....so I asked him for a quote, and I'm waiting to hear back.

I need a light duty truck and want to salvage this one. Would appreciate any advice on how to proceed with a valve job / rebuild.

Are your help and your neighbor the same person? That person might be giving you bad advice.

Do you have any good local Facebook groups that you could post in for advice? Like ask around for a mechanic or shop that specializes in these older vehicles. A tow to the shop doesn't cost that much, and you might be out a few hundred bucks for the work, but you will have your running truck back - and it's still going to be less than a monthly car payment.

LugNut1990 04-27-2021 11:31 AM

Sounding as if the engine needs pulling and a total going-through. That's my idea of a great time; nothing more statisfying then a well-done rebuild.


Of course you must have the time, tools, space, will, and funds. And a good machine shop nearby.

Hoseman1958 04-27-2021 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp2code (Post 548520)
Are your help and your neighbor the same person? That person might be giving you bad advice.

Do you have any good local Facebook groups that you could post in for advice? Like ask around for a mechanic or shop that specializes in these older vehicles. A tow to the shop doesn't cost that much, and you might be out a few hundred bucks for the work, but you will have your running truck back - and it's still going to be less than a monthly car payment.


Yes. neighbor and helper are the same person. At this point, I would not hesitate to use this forum to teach me how to remove the cylinder head and get it to a machine shop......but I think my neighbor can handle that part of it (he is retired mechanic from Ohio Dept. of Transportation.) My only worry is the whole Oil Pump / TDC / Timing process that would need to happen at the end. He tended to want to "deviate from the script" on that.....and I'm not sure what went wrong with the valves, but here we are.


I'm going to do some more research and try to make a sensible decision in the coming days. Thanks to all for the advice!:candle:

SBJ 04-27-2021 04:19 PM

If you are sure the distributor is in the correct position, put the engine at TDC on cylinder 1, then take the distributor cap off and mark the rotor and the body of the distributor. It'll save you a lot of time and guessing going back together the next time around.

alabama_lowlife 04-27-2021 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548516)
I should note that when I removed harmonic balancer with number one cylinder on tdc, the timing notches were way down at @ 9:00. I put a paint mark on the balancer at the actual spot where the pin sticking out of the timing cover was. I forgot about this, and when we realized it yesterday and aligned the harmonic balancer (new) to correspond to the paint mark on old balancer, we got our best result of the whole


Sounds like you were on the exhaust stroke

Foul_Mouth 04-27-2021 06:06 PM

I have a series going on YouTube about head gasket replacement. Search 'Nissan Hardbody [Patches]Head Gasket Repair'. I am currently at the point of putting the rocker arms back on.

Hoseman1958 04-28-2021 06:43 AM

These are great. Thank you!

Hoseman1958 04-28-2021 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabama_lowlife (Post 548540)
Sounds like you were on the exhaust stroke

OK, so it seems like this is the most fundamental and, in retrospect, devastating error to have made in this entire process. I just watched the videos for rocker arm and cylinder head removal from Pounding Rox Truck Shop.


I'm going to move forward with everything and will post an update when progress has been made. Thank you K!

XoXSciFiGuy 04-28-2021 07:38 AM

If you have replaced a chain or otherwise done timing related work that involved pulling off stuff...and your engine starts up bouncing around and backfiring, etc...usually the problem is the oil pump was not installed on the compression stroke, number one cylinder.

Another problem is if you DO get it to Top Dead Center on the COMPRESSION stroke as you should...and you install the oil pump but it bumps off alignment and puts the oil pump shaft one tooth off on the install. I think that puts the engine timing off by 20 degrees. (Exact degrees calculated by dividing 360 by the number of teeth on the oil pump gear.)

Some pictures will explain this better: (from the Factory Service Manual) Not necessarily in order. I just grabbed them from my images at Imgur dot com.

https://i.imgur.com/m5kSR8L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OaPOlho.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DqgPAgO.jpg

In the picture above, notice that the end of the shaft, the drive on it, is more toward the FRONT of the engine. If you look at the engine from the drivers' side fender....down into that distributor hole, it should look like the picture. The approximate position on it is the 11:25 clock position. Not 1120 or 1130 as you would view it on a clock. 1125. The problem is when you are underneath the truck and installing that pump...you line up the oil hole and the punch mark, right? You start pushing the oil pump up through the mounting hole from underneath, right?

And then nine times out of ten...the damn shaft will move off the marks a tooth on you. That's why it is good to have someone up above watching down the distributor hole. That way you don't have to stuff a bolt to hold the pump temporarily in place...and then get up off the ground to go look. Your assistant can tell you, and then you pull the oil pump back out...line up the marks again...try it again. Much easier than doing it alone. Once your assistant sees it is right, then you put in the oil pump bolts and you are good to go.

MAKING SURE YOU ARE TDC ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE, number one cylinder: My personal trick to getting it right...

1) Take out number one spark plug. Leave the other three in.

2) Have a skinny, long screwdriver ready to go.

3) Stick your finger into the number one spark plug hole.

4) Turn engine (crank) bolt clockwise.

5) Every second revolution, the air pressure from being the compression stroke should force your finger out of the hole.

6) When this happens, STOP turning the engine.

7) Take the screwdriver and stick it into the cylinder hole. Keep hold of the screwdriver.

8) Gently turn engine a little bit clockwise, a little bit counter-clockwise, but not very much.

9) While doing this little bit of back-and-forth, you will FEEL the top of the piston touching your screwdriver.

10) Turn engine clockwise and keep feeling with the screwdriver. Just a tiny bit of turn at a time will do it. Eventually, you will feel and know when that piston has reached the absolute TOP of the compression stroke. If the piston starts going back down a little bit...bring it back UP with the wrench until it is at the absolute top.

11) STOP turning over the engine when you reach that point. Don't let the engine move, don't let the truck roll anywhere, even if it is neutral.

12) You are THERE. The engine is now at absolute TDC on the compression stroke and you can install the oil pump.

Hoseman1958 04-28-2021 02:54 PM

SciFi- these magnifications of the pics in the fsm are great....and thank you for taking the time to "refine" your explanation about how to get precisely to tdc....so that an idiot could understand them. I am an idiot with dementia...but I still think that I understand.


I shoved the oil pump shaft up in there so many times that I have now fooled myself into thinking that I am "developing skills" at it. I think I can clearly visualize at this point how both tdc and the oil pump process need to be done.


I don't understand what I did to mess up the valves. Does a 115 compression reading on the 2nd cylinder definitely indicate that the valves are damaged.....or could it just be the head gasket?


I did not know that there were timing marks on the harmonic balancer when I made my original paint mark on it - and in several attempts to put the number one cylinder on TDC, the harmonic balancer was not lining up on the second notch in to indicate it was in sync. Why would this be if I installed the new crank sprocket in correct orientation with key way point straight up and the colored chain link down there aligned with the punch mark on it? I'm trying to figure out where we messed up so we don't do it again.


With all of this said, at this point I'm totally committed to getting this right. My poor neglected truck has served me well and I owe her an herculean effort on this!

alabama_lowlife 04-28-2021 05:27 PM

115 psi could be something broken or it could just be wear. Squirt some oil in the #2 cylinder and repeat the compression test. If there is an increase in compression when “wet” that is an indication of worn rings. Frankly, it’s not entirely necessary to rebuild even if that is the case.

When you place the #1 cylinder to TDC, how far off are the marks from the timing pin? Can you take a picture?

Foul_Mouth 04-30-2021 08:22 PM

I use magnets to hold the rotor at #1 cylinder as I put the pump back in.

Hoseman1958 05-01-2021 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foul_Mouth (Post 548701)
I use magnets to hold the rotor at #1 cylinder as I put the pump back in.

I saw that in one of your videos! I've been occupied the past few days, but plan to redo the compression test in the next day or two to see If K's tip about putting some oil in # 2 cylinder generates any change in that cylinder. regardless of the outcome, I have another helper here for a few weeks and I will try to get on TDC compression stroke with the harmonic balancer as close to 2nd notch as possible. I will try to post pics of rotor position and harmonic balancer position relative to the pin on the timing cover if I am able to get clear shots. Thank you!

XoXSciFiGuy 05-01-2021 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548756)
I saw that in one of your videos! I've been occupied the past few days, but plan to redo the compression test in the next day or two to see If K's tip about putting some oil in # 2 cylinder generates any change in that cylinder. regardless of the outcome, I have another helper here for a few weeks and I will try to get on TDC compression stroke with the harmonic balancer as close to 2nd notch as possible. I will try to post pics of rotor position and harmonic balancer position relative to the pin on the timing cover if I am able to get clear shots. Thank you!

If the chain itself is installed correctly, it is very accurate to do the screwdriver in the number one spark plug hole trick. You can FEEL the piston coming up or going down, and you 'know' when you have reached the very top. When the piston begins to go back down when you are turning the Big Ass Wrench, you just go counter clockwise a hair to bring it back up. A little back and forth and its easy to tell when you are 'there'.

Hoseman1958 05-02-2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foul_Mouth (Post 548701)
I use magnets to hold the rotor at #1 cylinder as I put the pump back in.

This may be a dumb question, but am I supposed to have the oil pump removed when I set TDC on the compression stroke....and then try to insert the oil pump while the distributor is bolted down at least loosely? My girlfriend is here and she can hold the rotor in place while I poke the oil pump shaft up there.



What we have been doing until now is putting the oil pump shaft up in a way that conforms to the service manual orientation....then, attaching the distributor.


Rechecked the compression today and got 140 130 140 145. When I put oil in 2nd cylinder and rechecked, got close to 150.

jp2code 05-02-2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548779)
My girlfriend is here and she can hold the rotor in place while I poke the oil pump shaft up there.

:dathumb:

VOTS95 05-02-2021 04:25 PM

My girlfriend is here and she can hold the rotor in place while I poke the oil pump shaft up there.

Sounds like she's a keeper!! :thumb:

Foul_Mouth 05-02-2021 07:38 PM

You will want the pump out before you set the engine to tdc.

XoXSciFiGuy 05-02-2021 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548779)
This may be a dumb question, but am I supposed to have the oil pump removed when I set TDC on the compression stroke....and then try to insert the oil pump while the distributor is bolted down at least loosely? My girlfriend is here and she can hold the rotor in place while I poke the oil pump shaft up there.

What we have been doing until now is putting the oil pump shaft up in a way that conforms to the service manual orientation....then, attaching the distributor.

Rechecked the compression today and got 140 130 140 145. When I put oil in 2nd cylinder and rechecked, got close to 150.

Oil pump should go in first...and THEN the distributor on top. Reason is because once you have the oil pump in place properly, the shaft cannot move on you as long as you don't roll the truck while in gear. I guess you COULD do it backwards, but I haven't tried that. Remember....just one tooth off on the oil pump gear will toss the truck about 20 degrees out of time. If the gear has 16 teeth, (can't recall the exact number of teeth, but it is something like that) that puts off the timing at 22.5 degrees. Yeah...that engine will buck and rock and backfire even if it starts.

Compression check: Well, if you aren't tossing black smoke from oil burning, and you don't have black oil at the end of the exhaust pipe (black or grey powder with WATER is okay, that's normal. If powder is black, you are just running a bit rich) then you should be okay. I would recommend changing the oil and dumping a full quart of HyPerLube in first, and then filling up the rest with regular oil. And then do this on every oil change afterward. Picture of HyPerLube below. Been using it since the 1980's and it WORKS. If you want to get REALLY crazy about it, you could drop your pan, scrape and clean it out good, and then put it back up with a new gasket. This way any oil in the engine will be cleaning out that engine without picking up crap from the pan.
https://i.imgur.com/BqBGnCa.jpg

Oil change yesterday via Advance Auto. Even the employees asked me how I got that stuff so cheap. Ha. You gotta work their online purchasing system. And use your Speed Perk discounts. I got ten bucks in Speed Perk off that order, plus a 20% discount taken off BEFORE I added in the Speed Perk. A walk-in customer with this same order would pay $35 for all that. To top it off, I sent a photo of this receipt to the Rewards guys at Rislone. They send you a $3 Visa card rebate to boot. I use it at the gas station and then toss it away. I have had a few of those cards because I always use HyPerLube. That offer ends on Dec 31 though.

https://i.imgur.com/CH1MSqP.jpg

jp2code 05-02-2021 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy (Post 548794)
Been using it since the 1980's and it WORKS.
https://i.imgur.com/BqBGnCa.jpg

Snake oil.

You change your oil at 2000 mile or less intervals.

XoXSciFiGuy 05-02-2021 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp2code (Post 548795)
Snake oil.

You change your oil at 2000 mile or less intervals.

Yes, that's true on the oil change interval. HyPerLube isn't snake oil unless you mean snake oil is a good thing. It leaves a honey-like coating on all moving parts, and cuts start-up wear real good. Stays on there even after the truck sits for a few days, or even a month.

I can do this overkill oil change stuff because I only put maybe 7,000 a year on the truck anyway. So maybe four changes a year. It's good insurance. A well-lubed engine is a happy engine. I have the last year of truck made for D21, and yet that truck is almost 25 years old. I could drive it from Seattle to Miami tomorrow and have no doubt it would make it easily.

Hoseman1958 05-03-2021 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foul_Mouth (Post 548787)
You will want the pump out before you set the engine to tdc.

Dang, I hope that will be the "magic bullet!"

Hoseman1958 05-03-2021 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy (Post 548794)
Oil pump should go in first...and THEN the distributor on top. Reason is because once you have the oil pump in place properly, the shaft cannot move on you as long as you don't roll the truck while in gear. I guess you COULD do it backwards, but I haven't tried that. Remember....just one tooth off on the oil pump gear will toss the truck about 20 degrees out of time. If the gear has 16 teeth, (can't recall the exact number of teeth, but it is something like that) that puts off the timing at 22.5 degrees. Yeah...that engine will buck and rock and backfire even if it starts.


Thanks SciFi. I set TDC with oil pump out then....insert oil pump shaft per factory service manual pics....and attach distributor. I'm game to give that more than a couple of tries. Thanks for the pointed advice on shopping for an oil change. Frugality is important! I have changed oil on this truck every 3K miles. Will now start doing it every 2K miles!

Hoseman1958 05-07-2021 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foul_Mouth (Post 548787)
You will want the pump out before you set the engine to tdc.

Success! I removed the oil pump and put #1 on TDC. My neighbor held the rotor in place to point to the original paint mark on distributor housing. After a few tries, got the oil pump inserted into the distributor using pretty much the exact angle shown in the FSM. The truck started right up.......and is now running like a sewing machine! I'm elated!



I drove it for 5 miles or so and saw oil smoke. We had stripped out probably 3 of the valve cover bolts weeks ago when I put it back together the first time after timing chain fix. My neighbor rigged up a temporary fix using 1/4" 20 thread hex bolts with some nuts just below the bolt heads. This may not have been a good idea. Oil is spewing from the valve cover. I am having surgery today and won't be able to attend to anything for weeks.....but at first opportunity, will be looking to get the valve cover "battened down." Neighbor says that we can tap out the valve cover holes and use the same type of hex bolts. My preference at this point instead, would be to hear from the forum about how to move forward with this process.



I can't thank you guys enough! I would have never been able to do this without the generous attention that I have received from everyone on this thread. Ya'll have been awesome!:dathumb:

jp2code 05-07-2021 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoseman1958 (Post 548902)
I am having surgery today

Good luck today

alabama_lowlife 05-07-2021 05:26 PM

Yeah, good luck man, I hope everything goes well on the surgery.

You can drill out the holes in the head to a larger size and use a helicoil to repair them. Get some M6x1.0 helicoils from the local parts store.

XoXSciFiGuy 05-08-2021 12:09 AM

When installing a valve cover gasket, even if you install the helicoils to do it..don't overtighten the valve cover bolts. You will bend the lip of the valve cover every time. There is no real oil pressure under that valve cover. Oil just splashes around. Let the gasket and sealer do the job and no more than 8-10 pounds on the bolts. With a Nissan aluminum cover, the risk is more that you will crack a corner of the cover, though. Around the bolt holes. The lip bending is more for steel covers.

Ask me how I found this out a looong time ago.. :bang: Back in the late 70's I bent the lip on one steel cover so it always leaked. And I cracked the corner on a Nissan aluminum cover.

Hoseman1958 05-24-2021 07:12 AM

So....about 4 of the valve cover bolts stripped metal out of the cover. My neighbor suggested buying 1/4-20 x 3/4" (US) bolts and using those as replacements. We did this w/o tapping the holes. Tightened crosswise by slow degrees all around and drove the truck aggressively for @ 10 miles. Right now there is no evidence of any kind of oil leak from valve cover, timing chain cover, or oil pan.


There is no coolant leak either.....and the truck runs better now then before I tore it apart. I couldn't be happier with this outcome! I hope that this thread will serve as a guide for avoiding some of the pitfalls that I encountered.....even though I was warned about them here in the forum...... like overtightening into the aluminum. It also goes without saying that you should always make sure that you have removed the crank bolt before trying to pull the harmonic balancer...ha ha!



The single most important observation I might like to cite about the process though is that so much time was wasted by not paying attention to the initial paint mark I made on the distributor to record the position of the rotor pointing to # 1 cylinder while on TDC. By noting the orientation of the half moon on the distributor shaft......and then re-inserting the distributor with an assistant holding the rotor in the exact position pointing to the paint mark, it only took a couple stabs of the oil pump up through there with half moon on the oil pump shaft oriented exactly opposite to the half moon on the distributor......to achieve success.


Thanks again Ya'll for the unselfish sharing of your time and insights! I would never have dreamed that I could do this!


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