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Old 07-18-2016, 06:30 PM   #11
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first and foremost, excellent debate here. Pushing me to think critically about this. im enjoying this.



the no welding is more because i dont want to. i never said i couldn't. I already took the welding class. MIG - steel, aluminum, realized i blow at tig and stick. bugh.

I see what you mean about he length of the sleeve. i think ill take a wee off of that sleeve and see what happens. I did notice that when i installed the enegry suspension bushings it didnt do anything. in fact it probably made it slightly worse. thats probably due to the length of the bushing sleeve as you pointed out.

the "second sleeve" is going to be between the poly bushings. It will be short. I could hog out the poly bushings a wee though. that wouldnt be a bad idea

i dislike the idea of a jamb nut to be honest with you. However, i wonder how a torrington bearing (i know thats a mfg name i dont know what the bearing is called....its the same kind that goes in the top of a mcphearson strut tower, flat with needle bearings radially oriented points) might allow it to move a little without jumping out or backing off the nut?

incidentally do you have any proof of the nut backing off? they are clearly designed to yield the top 2-3 threads and lock onto the tension rod.

Last edited by street_rulerr; 07-18-2016 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
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incidentally do you have any proof of the nut backing off? they are clearly designed to yield the top 2-3 threads and lock onto the tension rod.
My own experience.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:57 PM   #13
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interesting. i have not had that.

did you have the crowned/cone-topped nut that im talking about or just a regular nut?
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:37 PM   #14
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I mentioned using a spherical bearing at the end of my first post.

These are common and can be found on racing parts websites.

Here is one example of one:



Simply picture this outer ring being welded in your frame bracket hole, the rod passing through the bearing id, and bushings being on either side. Nice?


This would be an interesting project.

I would start with a spherical bearing which has an id of 16mm (0.6299"), or maybe 16.1mm. The strut rod going through it has a 16mm diameter.

5/8" is 0.6250", id too small, but a machine shop might be able to open it up.

That bearing will have a holder, or, as in the picture above, an outer ring like shown in the picture which is welded to the truck bracket.

**It might even be possible to machine two spaced grooves on the outer ring O. D. to fit retaining clips--then, welding would not be necessary, plus, the bearing would be easily replaceable. The bearing would need to nest snuggly in the frame bracket hole. I would experiment using stainless or high chrome clips due to the corrosiveness potential for a regular circlip.

Instead of a one-piece rod sleeve, you would use a two-piece sleeve: one sleeve on either side of the bearing. This could be a OEM sleeve cut in half to start with. The sleeve butts up against the spherical bearing ID.

You would use the poly bushings just the same.

The sleeves would need to be tailored in length so that nut can be taken down to compress the bushings somewhat. That way, the bushings are being used to absorb shock and vibration as they should.

The big advantage to this idea is that all side (radial) loading is removed from the bushings! The bushings will not want to oval-out, and the rod will always be centered in the truck bracket.

Whether this idea is practical or not, I cannot say, but I think it is interesting.

One step which would need to be determined, would be whether the OD of the spherical bearing holder not be too large to fit in the Nissan frame bracket hole, but this does not look to be a problem.

For example, one spherical bearing spec for an ID 16mm bearing shows an OD of 33 mm. If the Nissan bracket hole is 30mm, you only need to hog it out to 33mm. Likely, it is already hogged out by rust and sawing action to that anyway. Another 16mm id bearing shows an OD of 38mm. I found a stainless inner and outer race maintenance free spherical bearing which has the perfect 30mm OD, the ID is 17mm, however, 1mm over the 16mm diameter of the rod--this particular bearing is designed to be pressed in; I don't know if tack welding it would destroy it.

For press fit bearings, it would also be possible to weld a collar onto each end the bracket, strong enough for pressing the bearing into, just like pressing a wheel bearing into a hub.

One would have to either consult with a bearing engineer, race car fabricator, or simple DIY experiments to see what would work.

Last edited by chickenfriend; 07-18-2016 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:00 PM   #15
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how much gap between the frame and the tension rod sleeve do you think is originally there? Im thinking instead of a spherical bearing you could just set/lightly press fit in a radial ball bearing into the frame and it would do exactly what the spherical one would do if it had a little play in it.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:07 PM   #16
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I don't think a radial bearing would work at all. That rod moves around all over the place--sweeping out a cone pattern on either side of the bracket (the center). If it binds due to the bearing, that bearing is going to rip loose.

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Old 07-18-2016, 10:10 PM   #17
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if its press fit ya, but if i press in the sleeve and let the rod walk in the sleeve like it wants to it will be fine. The cups/frame will take the axial loads. the ball bearing will take the radial loads. im thinking this due to the spherical bearing thickness.

whats the stock hole diameter in the frame that the tension rod passes through?
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by street_rulerr View Post
if its press fit ya, but if i press in the sleeve and let the rod walk in the sleeve like it wants to it will be fine. The cups/frame will take the axial loads. the ball bearing will take the radial loads. im thinking this due to the spherical bearing thickness.
?
The bracket is not that thick, plus it is prone to rust. A pressed-in or beat-in sleeve would work loose soon enough. Be my guest to try it, though. Even if it does not work, it might give you a better idea!
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:35 AM   #19
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I ran my former 87 with no bearing cups at all and never noticed any problems. The holes in the mount were elongated and I had a machine shop cut me out square pieces of steel than they punched the proper size hole in them, my buddy welded them on, on the front side only. No problem running it that way for me anyway.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:55 AM   #20
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I just had an afterthought about the spherical bearings, and that is, if I have that 17mm spherical bearing of 30mm OD (mentioned above), and my backing washer hole is filed out from its current 29mm to 30mm, then I should be able to slip the spherical bearing right in the hole, or if I keep the ID of the hole a tad smaller than 30mm, I can have a press fit of the bearing. With the width of the bracket thickness combined with the thickness of the two washers, there might be enough depth there to make a press fit meaningful, since the width of that particular bearing race is only 10mm.

My idea was that it might not have to be welded in place.

That is because, and this would only work with a two-part sleeve system, the sleeves pressing equally against it would self-center it.

I could try this idea even with the bearing cups already welded in place, as my system is currently configured.

Just an idea. Might not work.

Last edited by chickenfriend; 07-19-2016 at 01:36 AM.
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