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Old 01-08-2019, 11:10 AM   #11
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thanks 4wheel98cherokee!
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:28 AM   #12
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I'm not a big fan of silicone, but then I'm pretty old school. The #3 brown is my favorite, although you really should wear rubber gloves unless you want that stuff on your fingers for days.

Problem I have with silicone is that it might be easier and less messy, but it tends to soften up after a while. I like the Permatex brown that comes with the brush pre-attached to the lid of the container. Sure, it's a bother to clean it off on the next repair, but you sure won't get any leaks if you use it right. On the rare times I HAVE used silicone, I generally go with what I call the Mean Red.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:00 AM   #13
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when you say "use it right", what exactly do you mean by that? What is the right way to use it?
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Old 08-07-2020, 04:57 PM   #14
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Great info here, thank you all. I'm putting my '95 D21 4x4 KA24e back together today after replacing the timing set. The question I have is this: where do all these o-rings that came in my kit go? The only 2 that came off that I've seen are the two on the lower left side (looking at the front of the engine) that seal the water passages. Somebody else in this thread posted about one on the distributor, but what about the others? There were 4 rubber o-rings in my kit in addition to the other seals and gaskets.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:44 PM   #15
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Here's a picture of what I know and don't know.

IMG_5806 by John Jenkins, on Flickr
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:31 AM   #16
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Steve: I quoted your questions and will insert my answers below them:

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Originally Posted by stevechristmas View Post
Hello all, I have six questions related to RTV and gaskets when doing the timing chain ...

1.) I have read several threads on this forum where people say it's better to use a gasket on the oil pan instead of RTV. I think one does not use both, right? I bought a Felpro oil pan gasket and I think I should not use RTV and this gasket but wanted to be sure.

Robert suggests: Forget the RTV silicone. Buy some Permatex Brown, in the brush bottle is easiest. Make sure both metal surfaces are clean and dry. Lay on the Permatex to both sides of the metal, making sure you get good coverage around the holes and all, and then install the gasket.

2.) I think everyone uses RTV on the timing cover. As mentioned, I know people often prefer gaskets for the oil pan but I don't think there is such an alternative for the KA24E timing cover. So, is everyone using RTV on their timing cover and if so, what RTV specifically? I see there are different types and I want to be sure I use the right one.

Robert suggests: I don't like silicone, I never have. Some people swear by it. If you are going to use it on a timing cover, I would go with the Hi Temp Red, or what I call 'Mean Red'. I lost count how many times I've peeled off soft RTV, especially the blue stuff, because it softened and eventually leaked. My preference, which I have been using since the 1970's, is Permatex Brown. When you use it, you wear rubber gloves or you will be scrubbing it off your fingers for days. But when you use it right, that stuff NEVER leaks and I mean like FOR ETERNITY. (*almost*) The bad part, and it's not that bad...is that it is harder to remove for a new gasket replacement. Razor blade and all that, not a peel and scrape thing like silicone. But when I use the Perma Brown, nothing ever leaks again anyway. Currently, my truck has absolutely zero leaks ANYWHERE. I hate leaks. I won't put up with them.

3.) The service manual says to "apply lithium grease to the sealing lip of crankshaft oil seal". Is white lithium grease the same thing as "lithium grease"? I have tried to find plain lithium grease but it seems like all that is for sale is "white lithium grease".

Robert suggests: No worries. The white grease will work. I've used the same grease I use on wheel bearings. It worked too.

4.) I have read about people priming the oil pump with petroleum jelly. Is that a good idea? I think just fill the pump up with oil and then smear a little on to keep the oil inside the pump while I try to get it mounted again is the right process of priming, is that right? Is there any special petroleum jelly or just any petroleum jelly I find at the store?

Robert suggests: I have not heard of this. But I can see where the idea might have come from. It's probably to keep the air passages filled with SOMETHING during the installation of the oil pump. I would just prime it with oil and try to keep it upright during installation. If the oil spills out, just put a little more into the pump.

5.) I should not use any RTV where the timing cover meets the head gasket, right?

Robert suggests: That's right. I will do a picture below with some added notes for you.

6.) Any tips on getting the cover off without tearing the head gasket?

Robert suggests: We will assume the valve cover and oil pan have already been removed. The cover will not generally damage the head gasket when you pull the cover. But you have to be CAREFUL just trying to REMOVE the cover. Use a rubber mallet and tap each side, and all around the cover GENTLY. The timing cover is made of cast aluminum, and after years and years of being heated up (engine running) and cooled down, (engine off) that metal gets brittle as hell. You have to make sure you don't crack it, or scar up the edges trying a screwdriver or something to get it off. And DON'T DROP IT. It can crack right in two falling onto the pavement. In fact...when I pull a timing cover I take an old blanket and wad it up UNDER the cover in case it drops. Cause that will really ruin your day. If the tapping isn't loosening the cover, you can try a razor blade around the edges, but don't get crazy.

Sometimes I tell people that timing cover work isn't mechanical. It's surgery.

As far as gasket sealer, no nothing on the top edge. But put extra on the corners, top and bottom. The replacement of the cover bolts is much easier if you do some system where you know where they go back in when you put the cover back on. Different lengths, etc. One thing I do is take a piece of paper and punch a hole in with the bolt about where it goes in the cover. The bolts will keep the paper from flying away. Then on the replacement, you pull each bolt from the paper and install it. Sounds weird, but it works. Otherwise you might put one in that's too short, and then try another and find out it's too long for the hole. But you've already done the sealer...

Tighten the bolts in light stages and do NOT go above factory recommendations or you will certainly crack the cover. No little extra 'oomph' on the wrench just to 'make sure its tight'. Let the sealer do the job. You will crack that cover like an egg. Especially happens in the corners. So watch out. There isn't really any pressure in there anyway, just oil slinging around mostly.

As always, thank you.


If you are dedicated to using RTV instead of Permatex, (I know...I said this already)...go with the toughest RTV you can find. Hi-temp red is good. My personal opinion is that the Blue stuff eventually softens on you.

Next month I am doing a chain job on my truck, and these are the techniques I plan to use. One more thing....it is much easier when you are installing the oil pump to have an assistant looking down into the distributor hole from the top. Because when you shove that oil pump up the distributor's wazoo, that damn gear on the shaft likes to move off a tooth. The only way you can check it is to put in a bolt to hold the oil pump in place, and then crawl up off the ground to see if the pointer at the end of the shaft is in the right position. If it is off a tooth and you start up the engine like that, you will be 20 degrees out of time. Backfiring galore LOL. But it gets tiresome crawling up to look, and then going back on the ground, removing the oil pump, and trying to insert it again. Much easier if the assistant can tell you if it is off. Up and down, up and down, gets to be a bitch.
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:54 AM   #17
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Just match them to the ones you remove along the way. Can't say for sure, but sometimes the gasket guys send you extras, just to cover any slightly different applications.
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Old 08-08-2020, 01:56 PM   #18
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I don't know what the red one in your picture is for- I don't think anybody does. Someone else asked about that here: http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=37852 . I don't remember if I found a use for it or not.

The small one you added a question mark to might be for the oil pickup tube, I think that's what someone proposed here:
http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=43177

Lastly, I have no idea if the one you marked as possibly being a distirbutor o-ring spare is a in fact a spare distributor o-ring nor do I know what the largest is for- maybe it's the "packing" (o-ring, Nissan# 2218523G15 or 2218595W10 for '85 - '92 or '92 - '94 respectively) for the distributor cap? I hope you find out as I'm curious.

What kit is this from by the way? (OSK, Evergreen, etc.)
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy View Post
Just match them to the ones you remove along the way. Can't say for sure, but sometimes the gasket guys send you extras, just to cover any slightly different applications.

The only ones that came off are the 2 oil passage gaskets I've marked on my diagram and the crank seal that I've already installed in the cover. I did find an o-ring on the distributor that is the same size as the 2 thick ones in my pic. I figured that the "spares" were probably for other applications, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't leaving something out upon reinstall.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:35 PM   #20
John Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevechristmas View Post
I don't know what the red one in your picture is for- I don't think anybody does. Someone else asked about that here: http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=37852 . I don't remember if I found a use for it or not.

The small one you added a question mark to might be for the oil pickup tube, I think that's what someone proposed here:
http://www.infamousnissan.com/forum/...ad.php?t=43177

Lastly, I have no idea if the one you marked as possibly being a distirbutor o-ring spare is a in fact a spare distributor o-ring nor do I know what the largest is for- maybe it's the "packing" (o-ring, Nissan# 2218523G15 or 2218595W10 for '85 - '92 or '92 - '94 respectively) for the distributor cap? I hope you find out as I'm curious.

What kit is this from by the way? (OSK, Evergreen, etc.)

Makes sense about the big skinny o-ring - it is about the same size as the distributor cap diameter so I'll check and see if it goes there.


This is an OSK kit.
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